This happens all the time to older people, especially women. I don’t know a single woman who has not been interrupted by a man— in a social setting or on the job. The older you get the more it happens. While it is hard to do, it works to interrupt the interrupter and say “excuse me, I was still talking.”
That usually shocks the interrupter enough to get a word in edgewise!
Janice, the reframe from "find an advocate" to "know your rights and direct the advocate" is the sharper version and most caregiving advice skips it entirely. The detail that lands hardest is the childhood conditioning outlasting seven decades of contrary evidence, that's the actual mechanism most aging and agency pieces gesture at without naming. Writing at 87 with the discipline to still flag your own compliance in real time, like the thing you agreed to last week, is a better argument for the thesis than the thesis itself. Sharp piece.
Oh boy, this really hit home with me, Janice. A group of young people asked me to be on a committee that's supposedly investigating a new school for our community. (They already have their plans.) I'm no dummy. I know they want to use my "creds" since I taught high school here and my name still carries a little weight. But during one meeting when I said they need to address Sr. Citizens' concerns, someone said, "We don't care what the 'back-in-my-day' crowd thinks." I almost choked and said, "Well, I'd rethink that" ~ and walked out. With that attitude I bet the older folks around me preserve their voices at the ballot box.
Hi Jan, Wow - amazing - someone would actually say that and thank you for your response. I do wonder sometimes, if our wisdom will count given the fast pace of technology and advancements in so many areas. Will my values be relevant in today's world?
I agree with you. Our community is in complete turmoil right now with all the advancements. A power plant and data center want to come in and the community is even voting on an amendment to the city charter to keep them out. Sometimes I don't know what is right or wrong in that arena. But I do still count on honesty and good ethics in all my decisions. Lie to me; try to manipulate me and you're on my sh*! list. Ha! {{Hugs}}
Hmmm! I’m thinking you live in or near Sandusky. I don’t know what’s right or wrong, either but it would certainly change the complexion of the area it seems. Do they need the power plant because of the proposed data center?
I live about 50 miles south of Sandusky in Upper Sandusky. Weird I know. It’s a small farm town of about 7,000 people. The windmill, solar people are also descending on us because of all our open spaces. Yes, the data center needs the power plant.
Being the oldest of 5, my father didn't like the noise of children and we were frequently scolded for being ourselves. That didn't feel so good. On the other hand, we were not micromanaged and as a result it cultivated curiosity and independence. I like those qualities in myself. I was gifted with quick verbal skills that helped me navigate through the troubled waters of dealing with authority figures. I also know how to listen. So what I am saying is that I don't often experience not being heard.
Hi Linda, As I read your post the term 'micromanaged' stands out - in retrospect, I think that is a key component - I was allowed to and didn't develop the necessary skills.
Heard by whom? It seems that if more of 'us' were members of the group to whom we are addressing, then we might be heard. But, we are lone soldiers in armies of generations made up of letters and busy on their phones. Look around, we are not present in a crowd. We are the outskirts.
Hi Marcia, Your post describes the issue well. It's part of my frustration - being on the outskirts. The values and beliefs I grew up with, no longer have meaning for today's generation, it seems.
It’s a slog to be heard, but I do it no matter what. I’m not dead yet. If I meet resistance I call it out for what it is. No problem when we lived in Philadelphia but where we live now it’s just fighting what they usually do versus what was done automatically in Philadelphia. Also people have not much of a sense of humor which does not help.
Right now I have no issues with agency at all. I’ve been single and independent most of my life, so I readily know how to speak up for myself. But I think this is a very important topic. I suspect many older adults are treated in a dismissive way. I love this message and the fact you have created a supportive community.
Hi Kathryn, I think many older adults are treated dismissively or feel as if they are. I was married for 60 some years before my husband died - he took care of things. So agency is somewhat of a foreign concept to me and I'm working on it.
Good for you — thinking about it, working on it, sharing the topic, and seeking support for yourself and others. I think our community here on Substack is wonderful. I’d like for us to be able to reach many many more.
I thin standing up to children can be difficult. That hasn’t been the case for me, but for some of my friends, their children want to go to accountants with them and generally supervise their financial life. This is usually driven by fear because they are afraid that if they don’t agree with their children or withdraw their support.
Hi Eva, I, fortunately don't have that problem either. I have a financial planner, who both of my children have met, but I said no to their options, and decided to stay with her. They aren't involved in any decisions. However, I know it can be an issue.
Great question! I am constantly reminding people to self advocate-- esp at the docs. While my mom is brazen and bold she becomes a mouse at the doctors. She's fearful. She's worried the doctor won't see her again if she's "pestering." I have a feeling this is true for the elderly community as a whole. Even my dad who is a retired doctor, told his doc how to wrap a wound, the doc didn't listen, dad didn't push it and the wound got infected! And because he's 92 it took 9 months to heal.
This is one helpful and relateable message! I am only 74 but was still raised in the same fashion as you were. I feel like you are like a big sister I never had. Someone made a point about micro management. We were not micromanaged at least! Our management included do your chores and be here for dinner, otherwise we were outside all day doing kid stuff. So we do have some skills.
Hi Julie, I was micro-managed to a degree. Mom would lay out clothes I had to wear to school, yet I was allowed to walk by myself to the library about a mile away and take the bus downtown by myself to go shopping. So some skills got through.
I am not yet so advanced in age (59) but things are getting worse for me on the mental side.
There's a pestering entry in my email which keeps popping up which represents itself as Netflix, trying for me to update information or saying that my auto debit payment didn't pull through. Usually I don't mind it because I thought that my payment went through just days ago so why would I update my info.
But this time, the impostors won. Up to the point that I gave an OTP and that was it. Funds were transferred and it even repeatedly asked for more OTPs but I already realized it by then and I stopped my stupidity.
It was as if I was in blackout mode and was hypnotized. I knew all along that giving out OTPs is dangerous but I still keep on doing it.
At this point, I am afraid on what my mind can do wherein it can harm me badly and eventually also hurt the people I love.
Hi, Thank you for sharing your story. I've gotten caught a couple of times and I too knew better. Those imposters can be really sneaky. When I got tripped up - they connected to something I knew about - like a package that was coming or an account I used to have. It's very frustrating.
Yes that's right! They connect it to something that makes you go on alert mode or panicky. They prey on us psychologically. And we people in our advanced ages can really be prey to their ruthless objectives.
How comfortable are you in standing up for yourself even though others may disagree?
This happens all the time to older people, especially women. I don’t know a single woman who has not been interrupted by a man— in a social setting or on the job. The older you get the more it happens. While it is hard to do, it works to interrupt the interrupter and say “excuse me, I was still talking.”
That usually shocks the interrupter enough to get a word in edgewise!
That's a good comeback.
Not my experience. That’s a big generalisation IMHO 😊
Janice, the reframe from "find an advocate" to "know your rights and direct the advocate" is the sharper version and most caregiving advice skips it entirely. The detail that lands hardest is the childhood conditioning outlasting seven decades of contrary evidence, that's the actual mechanism most aging and agency pieces gesture at without naming. Writing at 87 with the discipline to still flag your own compliance in real time, like the thing you agreed to last week, is a better argument for the thesis than the thesis itself. Sharp piece.
Dr Tom Kane
Oh boy, this really hit home with me, Janice. A group of young people asked me to be on a committee that's supposedly investigating a new school for our community. (They already have their plans.) I'm no dummy. I know they want to use my "creds" since I taught high school here and my name still carries a little weight. But during one meeting when I said they need to address Sr. Citizens' concerns, someone said, "We don't care what the 'back-in-my-day' crowd thinks." I almost choked and said, "Well, I'd rethink that" ~ and walked out. With that attitude I bet the older folks around me preserve their voices at the ballot box.
Hi Jan, Wow - amazing - someone would actually say that and thank you for your response. I do wonder sometimes, if our wisdom will count given the fast pace of technology and advancements in so many areas. Will my values be relevant in today's world?
I agree with you. Our community is in complete turmoil right now with all the advancements. A power plant and data center want to come in and the community is even voting on an amendment to the city charter to keep them out. Sometimes I don't know what is right or wrong in that arena. But I do still count on honesty and good ethics in all my decisions. Lie to me; try to manipulate me and you're on my sh*! list. Ha! {{Hugs}}
Hmmm! I’m thinking you live in or near Sandusky. I don’t know what’s right or wrong, either but it would certainly change the complexion of the area it seems. Do they need the power plant because of the proposed data center?
I live about 50 miles south of Sandusky in Upper Sandusky. Weird I know. It’s a small farm town of about 7,000 people. The windmill, solar people are also descending on us because of all our open spaces. Yes, the data center needs the power plant.
That’s what I was thinking - flat land and open spaces - a perfect option if this is not home.
Being the oldest of 5, my father didn't like the noise of children and we were frequently scolded for being ourselves. That didn't feel so good. On the other hand, we were not micromanaged and as a result it cultivated curiosity and independence. I like those qualities in myself. I was gifted with quick verbal skills that helped me navigate through the troubled waters of dealing with authority figures. I also know how to listen. So what I am saying is that I don't often experience not being heard.
Hi Linda, As I read your post the term 'micromanaged' stands out - in retrospect, I think that is a key component - I was allowed to and didn't develop the necessary skills.
Heard by whom? It seems that if more of 'us' were members of the group to whom we are addressing, then we might be heard. But, we are lone soldiers in armies of generations made up of letters and busy on their phones. Look around, we are not present in a crowd. We are the outskirts.
Hi Marcia, Your post describes the issue well. It's part of my frustration - being on the outskirts. The values and beliefs I grew up with, no longer have meaning for today's generation, it seems.
It’s a slog to be heard, but I do it no matter what. I’m not dead yet. If I meet resistance I call it out for what it is. No problem when we lived in Philadelphia but where we live now it’s just fighting what they usually do versus what was done automatically in Philadelphia. Also people have not much of a sense of humor which does not help.
Hi Phyllis, Good for you!
It’s taken me a long while to get to this point. Favorites saying is “don’t care,”second fave “so what?” Keep up good work Janet
Right now I have no issues with agency at all. I’ve been single and independent most of my life, so I readily know how to speak up for myself. But I think this is a very important topic. I suspect many older adults are treated in a dismissive way. I love this message and the fact you have created a supportive community.
Hi Kathryn, I think many older adults are treated dismissively or feel as if they are. I was married for 60 some years before my husband died - he took care of things. So agency is somewhat of a foreign concept to me and I'm working on it.
Good for you — thinking about it, working on it, sharing the topic, and seeking support for yourself and others. I think our community here on Substack is wonderful. I’d like for us to be able to reach many many more.
Kathryn, I couldn't agree more with you about the wonderful community on Substack and about being able to reach more.
I thin standing up to children can be difficult. That hasn’t been the case for me, but for some of my friends, their children want to go to accountants with them and generally supervise their financial life. This is usually driven by fear because they are afraid that if they don’t agree with their children or withdraw their support.
Hi Eva, I, fortunately don't have that problem either. I have a financial planner, who both of my children have met, but I said no to their options, and decided to stay with her. They aren't involved in any decisions. However, I know it can be an issue.
Thank you. This really hits home. Just beginning to have agency at 69.
Great question! I am constantly reminding people to self advocate-- esp at the docs. While my mom is brazen and bold she becomes a mouse at the doctors. She's fearful. She's worried the doctor won't see her again if she's "pestering." I have a feeling this is true for the elderly community as a whole. Even my dad who is a retired doctor, told his doc how to wrap a wound, the doc didn't listen, dad didn't push it and the wound got infected! And because he's 92 it took 9 months to heal.
CK, I'm finding it's a good skill to have in place - that's for sure.
This is one helpful and relateable message! I am only 74 but was still raised in the same fashion as you were. I feel like you are like a big sister I never had. Someone made a point about micro management. We were not micromanaged at least! Our management included do your chores and be here for dinner, otherwise we were outside all day doing kid stuff. So we do have some skills.
Hi Julie, I was micro-managed to a degree. Mom would lay out clothes I had to wear to school, yet I was allowed to walk by myself to the library about a mile away and take the bus downtown by myself to go shopping. So some skills got through.
Me too Janice! Nothing I loved more than walking to the library by myself. Oh, the smell of it and the shelves of wonder!
Hi Julie, And that is where my love affair with books began - one of which continues today.
I am not yet so advanced in age (59) but things are getting worse for me on the mental side.
There's a pestering entry in my email which keeps popping up which represents itself as Netflix, trying for me to update information or saying that my auto debit payment didn't pull through. Usually I don't mind it because I thought that my payment went through just days ago so why would I update my info.
But this time, the impostors won. Up to the point that I gave an OTP and that was it. Funds were transferred and it even repeatedly asked for more OTPs but I already realized it by then and I stopped my stupidity.
It was as if I was in blackout mode and was hypnotized. I knew all along that giving out OTPs is dangerous but I still keep on doing it.
At this point, I am afraid on what my mind can do wherein it can harm me badly and eventually also hurt the people I love.
Hi, Thank you for sharing your story. I've gotten caught a couple of times and I too knew better. Those imposters can be really sneaky. When I got tripped up - they connected to something I knew about - like a package that was coming or an account I used to have. It's very frustrating.
Yes that's right! They connect it to something that makes you go on alert mode or panicky. They prey on us psychologically. And we people in our advanced ages can really be prey to their ruthless objectives.